Dick Fischer's 2015 ASA Presentation in Tulsa, Oklahoma
Hello, Alice
One of the talks at the ASA conference held in steamy Tulsa last month was mine: “Historical Adam: Identifying the Time, Place and Cultural Setting of the First Man in Biblical History.” I recorded it in a studio and put it on YouTube. Your comments would be greatly appreciated, and I would be glad to answer any questions. Also feel free to forward this link to whomever you feel might benefit.
I hope to be able to contribute to your blog. This has been a pursuit of mine since 1984. My article suggesting Adam was injected into the human race was published in the Washington Post in 1986. Over the years I have researched Genesis within the context of the ancient Near East in the Library of Congress. I think the evidence I have unearthed is solid. My book, Historical Genesis from Adam to Abraham came out in 2008 and I am working now on a second edition. I would need some time to track down some of your evidences. I think Adam in Eridu fits all I know, but I am open to other ideas.
Yours faithfully,
~Dick Fischer
Hello, Dick.
I have no doubt that your research is solid. However, you seem to be overlooking some significant anthropological data found in Genesis and Exodus about the Kushites and the Proto-Saharan cattle-herding ancestors of Abraham. That evidence suggests very strongly that Genesis 1-12 has a Nilo-Saharan layer that has been ignored.
Er is Ir in Hebrew and means city, as in Ir David - City of David. Er-Idu means City of the Idu (Ido), suggesting city of Red Rulers. There is another Eridu in Nigeria, usually spelled Eredo in English. This site is protected by a 70-foot high barrier wall that runs for about 100 miles. It was first discovered about 18 years ago by the British archaeologist Patrick Darling. Replication of names usually means people of that place have established a new territorial center, just as colonists from England named the colonies "New England."
In Biblical Anthropology, the study of place names (toponymy) is one way to track migrations and dispersions. For example, there is a Meroe in Nubia and a Meroe on the Orontes in Turkey. Same people, different time. In Turkey they were called "Saka" and the Saka were Kushites. Likewise, there is a Karnak on the Nile and a Karnak/Carnak in Brittany. These are also the work of peoples whose point of origin was the Nile. These peoples are in Haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA).
The Akkadian name Dûr-gurgurri (Bad-tibiri) means Wall of Copper Smiths or Fortress of Smiths. The Akkadian prefix Dûr- means "fortress of" as in Dûr-Sharrukin, “Sargon’s fortress.” According to the Sumerian King List, Dûr-gurgurri was the second city to "exercise kingship" in Sumer, following Eridu (City of Idu).
Similarities between the biblical Adam, Noah and the Flood, and creation and flood stories of Mesopotamia can be explained by the dispersion of Paleolithic and Neolithic populations across the archaic world which extended from the Upper Nile to the Indus River Valley.
Further, all the evidence point to Messianic expectation originating among Abraham's Nilo-Saharan ancestors. And we have two Messianic prophesies in Genesis before we even get to chapter 5. The first is Genesis 3:15 concerning the Woman who brings forth the Seed, and the second is Genesis 4:1, when Cain's mother declares "Qaniti" which refers to a ruler in Proto-Hebrew), Cain's mother declares, "Ka-niti (Qaniti); I have gotten a man, as has YHWH." This is a Messianic reference. Kaniti (Qaniti) is a reference to king, as Kandake is a reference to queen. Further, the iti or itti suffix appears with royalty of the Nile Valley. Queen Nefertiti is an example.
I look forward to further conversation.
Best wishes,
Alice
Hi Alice:
You give me a lot to think about and I have to consider it alongside all that I already know. There is a definite shift from Genesis 10 to 11. Chapter eleven presents a new thought and your assessment makes sense. Genesis 2-10 could have been written by any one of Noah's descendants. Mizraim makes sense to me and I suggested his line as a possibility but he was not present at Babylon where the tower was built so Genesis 11 could have been written by someone in the line of Arphaxad, possibly Abraham.
The "Erido" you mentioned was built in 800–1000 AD. I don't see a connection.
You wrote: "Similarities between the biblical Adam, Noah and the Flood, and creation and flood stories of Mesopotamia can be explained by the dispersion of Paleolithic and Neolithic populations across the archaic world which extended from the Upper Nile to the Indus River Valley."
Paleolithic Period predates all of Genesis 2-11 unless you tamper with the genealogies in Genesis, Chronicles and Luke and explain away all the Neolithic trappings attributed to Cain's descendants.
Essentially, I don't have to do anything to the Genesis text except retranslate it which can be found on my website (Revised King James Version) and everything fits with archaeological findings, pottery remains, and the written history of the Akkadians and Sumerians.
Hi, Dick.
Adam is presented in 2 ways in the Bible: as the progenitor of Abraham's ancestors (historical) and as the symbolic first created man (metahistorical). In the first case, Adam's existence would still be older than the time of Cain and Seth (Neolithic). There is a gap of time between Genesis 4:1 and Genesis 4:17. Cain is not the biological son of Adam. Cain is the first listed historical ruler of the ancestry of Abraham. Cain/Kayan/Kahn means king, and in Jude's epistle (c. 68 AD) Cain was solidly established as the archetype of an earthly ruler, along with Balaam the prophet and Korah the priest. These were the three most sacred offices among Abraham’s people and they were often filled by people corrupted by the world.
In the second case (metahistorical), Adam would have been a "special creation" that appeared on earth about 4 million years ago, likely in the region of the Omo Valley. Fully human from the beginning, though anatomically archaic.
The so-called genealogies of Genesis are actually king lists, and very old. Kinship analysis has demonstrated these to be authentic. They reveal a distinctive marriage and ascendancy pattern that is associated with the Horite Ha'biru (Hebrew). The rulers had two wives. The cousin wife was the second wife and she named her first born son after her father. This is called the cousin bride's naming prerogative and this feature makes it possible to trace Jesus' ancestry back to the Horite ruler-priests.
Nekhen is one of the oldest known Horite Habiru shrines. Located on Nile in ancient times, the original shrine there dates to about 3800 BC.
Ultimately, Genesis isn't about human origins really. It is about the etiology of Messianic Expectation among Abraham's proto-Saharan cattle-herding ancestors.
Best wishes,
Alice
Hi Alice:
Again, you give me much to think about. I tend to follow Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is likely correct.
Yours faithfully,
~Dick Fischer
Dick,
Do we want simple or true? Reductionism - which I realize you are not guilty of - has been a problem in the understanding of Genesis. In Biblical Anthropology, we do not have a simple picture. We are doing soundings using the data of Scripture to reconstruct a more accurate picture of early man and the origin of biblical Faith. Biblical Anthropology as a science is pushing back the curtain to provide a better understanding of the antecedents of Messianic Expectation.
To understand this research it is helpful to have some background in Anthropology.
I am familiar with Occam's Razor, having taught Philosophy for 12 years. The simplest explanation is indeed what the data of Scripture gives us - that Abraham was a descendant of the rulers listed in Genesis 4, 5. 10 and 11, and that these ruling lines practiced endogamy. So that Abraham is a descendant of Kain, Seth, Ham, Shem, Kush and Nimrod, and ethnically a Kushite. This picture aligns with findings in anthropology, linguistics, archaeology, climate studies, DNA studies, and migration studies. That said, the huge bulk of evidence that supports this is not easy to sort through. I've been gathering it for over 35 years.
Best wishes,
Alice C. Linsley
Hi, Alice
Here is a quickie tour through the Hall of Human Origins at the Smithsonian Institute in Washington, DC. I'm your guide.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej1CkDuIPl0
The data of Scripture will not be a factor in constructing a picture of early man. I am interested in the DNA picture. What can you send me?
Yours faithfully,
~Dick Fischer
Hi, Alice
Here is a little I can add to your theory. According to Jubilees the wives of the sons of Noah were non-Semitic, probably Sumerian. Descendants of brothers Ham and Shem would have common DNA elements. The Kushites or Kassites originally settled in western Iran, however, due to it being a precarious place sandwiched between the warring Elamites, Assyrians and Babylonians some or maybe all relocated to northeastern Africa. The original location apparently was unknown to Josephus who ventured that the Gihon was the Nile. The relocated Cushites named that section of the Nile "Gihon" after the river in their Iranian homeland. Thus it is that the KJV translators inserted "Ethiopia" for Cush.
Yours faithfully,
~Dick Fischer
Dick,
There are problems with this, however.
First, Jubilees is not an authority for Christians. I look at sources such as Jubilees and the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud, but I do not credit them as being as authoritative as the divinely superintended canonical books. As a Biblical Anthropologist, I rely primarily on data from Genesis and other canonical books. My rule is the Bible first, and the Bible last.
Second, the Divine Name YHWH has an original Nubian context and it appears to have been carried from there to Edom and Judea.
Third, the theory that the Kushites originated in the Black Sea area doesn't align with Genesis or the evidence of the Kushite dispersion out of Africa. There is evidence of backflow, however. The anthropological evidence suggests that the Kassites of the Zagros Mountains are likely related to the Nilotic Luo. Though the Luo share many culture traits with the biblical Kushites, they were a different people. The Zagros Mountains (Luristan) was the place where the ancestors of the Luo and the Elamites had contact with each other. My Ugandan and Kenyan Luo informants tell me that their ancestors migrated first to Mesopotamia after Noah's flood which took place on mega lake Chad. They were kingdom builders, like Nimrod, Noah's great grandson. Some continued on to the Zagros Mountains where they left traces of their ways among the Lur (who I studied while I lived in Iran in the 1970's). The Lurs have elevated frequency of YDNA Haplogroup R1b (especially of subclade R1bla2a-L23 - still being studied). R1bla2a is from the part of Africa where the ancient rulers of the Bible lived in the regions of the Nile Valley, Chad, Cameroon and Sudan.
Historical Noah lived in the region of Lake Chad. His descendants dispersed widely across the ancient Afro-Asiatic Dominion. Bor-Nu/No, in the region of Lake Chad means "Land of Noah" and this is the single place on Earth that claims to be Noah's homeland. He was a Proto-Saharan ruler.
There is still so much to learn! I feel as if I have only begun to scratch the surface.
~Dick Fischer
Dick,
Do we want simple or true? Reductionism - which I realize you are not guilty of - has been a problem in the understanding of Genesis. In Biblical Anthropology, we do not have a simple picture. We are doing soundings using the data of Scripture to reconstruct a more accurate picture of early man and the origin of biblical Faith. Biblical Anthropology as a science is pushing back the curtain to provide a better understanding of the antecedents of Messianic Expectation.
To understand this research it is helpful to have some background in Anthropology.
I am familiar with Occam's Razor, having taught Philosophy for 12 years. The simplest explanation is indeed what the data of Scripture gives us - that Abraham was a descendant of the rulers listed in Genesis 4, 5. 10 and 11, and that these ruling lines practiced endogamy. So that Abraham is a descendant of Kain, Seth, Ham, Shem, Kush and Nimrod, and ethnically a Kushite. This picture aligns with findings in anthropology, linguistics, archaeology, climate studies, DNA studies, and migration studies. That said, the huge bulk of evidence that supports this is not easy to sort through. I've been gathering it for over 35 years.
Best wishes,
Alice C. Linsley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej1CkDuIPl0
The data of Scripture will not be a factor in constructing a picture of early man. I am interested in the DNA picture. What can you send me?
Yours faithfully,
~Dick Fischer
Dick,
See Gerald Massey's Ancient Egypt: The Light of the World (page 440) where he speaks about the Nilotic or lake context of Nnu or Noah.
Other data can be found in the following links:
See Gerald Massey's Ancient Egypt: The Light of the World (page 440) where he speaks about the Nilotic or lake context of Nnu or Noah.
Other data can be found in the following links:
DNA, Genetics and Archaic Humans
Haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA)
Genesis and Molecular Genealogy
Hunter-Gatherer Study Inconclusive
Tut's Father Married His Cousin
Ethiopian DNA Study Ignores Significant Data
A Kindling of Ancient Memory
Abraham: Descendant of Both Shem and Ham
Migrations Out of Africa
Denisovan Populations
Chromosome Profile of 64% of European Men
Genetic Risks in Cousin Marriage
Genetic Adam Never Knew Genetic Eve
Genesis and Molecular Genealogy
DNA Confirms Mixed Ancestry of Jews
Mitochondrial Eve
Genesis and Genetics
Sub-Saharan DNA of Modern Jews
DNA Research Confirms Kushite Migration
Overview of Human Origins
A Flawed Paradigm
Is Scientific Dating of Fossils Reliable?
Genesis on Human Origins
The Making of Man
Denisovan Finds Create a Stir
Overview of Human Origins
Genesis: Is It Really About Human Origins?
Q and A on Creation vs Evolution
Genesis and Genetics
Of a more current nature:
80,000 Year African Ancestor of Chinese Men
Solving the Ainu Mystery
Abraham's Ainu Ancestors
The Nile-Japan Ainu Connection
A Kindling of Ancient Memory
Genetic Evidence for Two Founding Populations of the Americas
First People at Genetic Center
Making Sense of Genesis 10
From the Nile to the Philippines: Tracing the Gurjars
Who Were the Kushites?
Kushites in Mindanao
Kushite Diversity and Unity
The Kushite-Kushan Connection
The Kushite Marriage Pattern Drove Kushite Expansion
Kushite Kings and the Kingdom of God
Moses' Kushite Wife
Kushite Wives
The Migration of Abraham's Kushite Ancestors
Haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA)
Genesis and Molecular Genealogy
Hunter-Gatherer Study Inconclusive
Tut's Father Married His Cousin
Ethiopian DNA Study Ignores Significant Data
A Kindling of Ancient Memory
Abraham: Descendant of Both Shem and Ham
Migrations Out of Africa
Denisovan Populations
Chromosome Profile of 64% of European Men
Genetic Risks in Cousin Marriage
Genetic Adam Never Knew Genetic Eve
Genesis and Molecular Genealogy
DNA Confirms Mixed Ancestry of Jews
Mitochondrial Eve
Genesis and Genetics
Sub-Saharan DNA of Modern Jews
DNA Research Confirms Kushite Migration
Overview of Human Origins
A Flawed Paradigm
Is Scientific Dating of Fossils Reliable?
Genesis on Human Origins
The Making of Man
Denisovan Finds Create a Stir
Overview of Human Origins
Genesis: Is It Really About Human Origins?
Q and A on Creation vs Evolution
Genesis and Genetics
Of a more current nature:
80,000 Year African Ancestor of Chinese Men
Solving the Ainu Mystery
Abraham's Ainu Ancestors
The Nile-Japan Ainu Connection
A Kindling of Ancient Memory
Genetic Evidence for Two Founding Populations of the Americas
First People at Genetic Center
Making Sense of Genesis 10
From the Nile to the Philippines: Tracing the Gurjars
Who Were the Kushites?
Kushites in Mindanao
Kushite Diversity and Unity
The Kushite-Kushan Connection
The Kushite Marriage Pattern Drove Kushite Expansion
Kushite Kings and the Kingdom of God
Moses' Kushite Wife
Kushite Wives
The Migration of Abraham's Kushite Ancestors
Here is a little I can add to your theory. According to Jubilees the wives of the sons of Noah were non-Semitic, probably Sumerian. Descendants of brothers Ham and Shem would have common DNA elements. The Kushites or Kassites originally settled in western Iran, however, due to it being a precarious place sandwiched between the warring Elamites, Assyrians and Babylonians some or maybe all relocated to northeastern Africa. The original location apparently was unknown to Josephus who ventured that the Gihon was the Nile. The relocated Cushites named that section of the Nile "Gihon" after the river in their Iranian homeland. Thus it is that the KJV translators inserted "Ethiopia" for Cush.
Yours faithfully,
~Dick Fischer
Dick,
There are problems with this, however.
First, Jubilees is not an authority for Christians. I look at sources such as Jubilees and the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud, but I do not credit them as being as authoritative as the divinely superintended canonical books. As a Biblical Anthropologist, I rely primarily on data from Genesis and other canonical books. My rule is the Bible first, and the Bible last.
Second, the Divine Name YHWH has an original Nubian context and it appears to have been carried from there to Edom and Judea.
Third, the theory that the Kushites originated in the Black Sea area doesn't align with Genesis or the evidence of the Kushite dispersion out of Africa. There is evidence of backflow, however. The anthropological evidence suggests that the Kassites of the Zagros Mountains are likely related to the Nilotic Luo. Though the Luo share many culture traits with the biblical Kushites, they were a different people. The Zagros Mountains (Luristan) was the place where the ancestors of the Luo and the Elamites had contact with each other. My Ugandan and Kenyan Luo informants tell me that their ancestors migrated first to Mesopotamia after Noah's flood which took place on mega lake Chad. They were kingdom builders, like Nimrod, Noah's great grandson. Some continued on to the Zagros Mountains where they left traces of their ways among the Lur (who I studied while I lived in Iran in the 1970's). The Lurs have elevated frequency of YDNA Haplogroup R1b (especially of subclade R1bla2a-L23 - still being studied). R1bla2a is from the part of Africa where the ancient rulers of the Bible lived in the regions of the Nile Valley, Chad, Cameroon and Sudan.
 |
| The highest density of R1b in Africa is in Noah's homeland in the region of Lake Chad. |
Historical Noah lived in the region of Lake Chad. His descendants dispersed widely across the ancient Afro-Asiatic Dominion. Bor-Nu/No, in the region of Lake Chad means "Land of Noah" and this is the single place on Earth that claims to be Noah's homeland. He was a Proto-Saharan ruler.
There is still so much to learn! I feel as if I have only begun to scratch the surface.
Best wishes,
Alice
Hi Alice:
I don't see that you recognize extra Noahic populations. You say. "the Luo share many culture traits with the biblical Kushites, they were a different people." There were "different people" all over the globe. In Africa, Australia, North and South America, China, people entirely unrelated to the Adamite population were in residence. If you don't recognize that fact nothing you do will make any sense. Noah's flood in Africa makes no sense at all. Read the parallel legends - all are centered in Mesopotamia. Layers of "water-laid" clay were found in the central cities of Mesopotamia. Every one I know recognizes a Mesopotamian flood. Nobody puts the flood in Africa. Alice, you at least have to recognize the basics before you venture into speculative territory.
Dick
Hi, Dick
Why do you think that? There were human populations in many parts of the world before Noah, during Noah's time, and after Noah's time. Sudan had human populations 70,000 years ago.
You said you believe in the simplest explanation as the most likely. The R1b cattle-herding Proto-Saharans are Abraham's ancestors, and Cain, Seth, Noah, Ham and Shem are among them. That is what Genesis relates and that is what the data supports.
The Mesopotamian accounts have parallels in Nilotic mythology and the Nilotic mythologies fit the binary worldview of Scripture more closely. Further, Messianic Expectation originated among those cattle-herding ancestors, not in Mesopotamia.
Here is a bit more about what I do as a Biblical Anthropologist: Something Older.
Best wishes,
Alice
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